Marketo's email editor is obviously terrible

[David_Friedman]

All,

Since Marketo's email editor is obviously terrible...

What other email editors do people use to get anything done?

Thanks,
Dave

[Colby_Hooley]

I was also shocked at the low quality of Marketo's email editor tool. Hopefully enough people chime in on this to get this bumped up the priority list to improve sooner than later. 

[Bram_Valdez1]

Yes, we had a template built as well. The modules are very similar to what's available in dreamweaver and it's made our lives much easier to build directly in Marketo. I'm more disappointed with Marketo's form functionality and Landing Pages. Would be great to have built in recaptcha on all forms and an update with the landing page editor.

For now we've moved to Instapage for all landing pages which is much easier to design with and has much sleeker forms to work with.

[Grégoire_Miche2]

Then vote for the ideas listed here:

-Greg

[Rachel_Thomas]

We were also frustrated with Marketo's email builder, mainly because of the specific syntax vs. actual coding and because most of the Marketo templates didn't want to render correctly in Outlook, which is the primary email client of our customers. I happened to come across the Hoosh template builder, which is not code-free, but does give some flexibility in building an initial template.

[Grégoire_Miche2]

As already written there, all the power of the editor is linked to the quality of the template you are using.

There is still room for improvement, though. Read this: Email editor 2.0 is leaving room for a v2.1

-Greg

[Bappy_Hashem]

Not affiliated to envato or anything. Just thought to share this idea - use a modern drag and drop email builder that supports Marketo and then import the whole HTML. Use Marketo to only send out emails, tracking and such but build the email itself externally. This one is a very good option:

https://themeforest.net/item/miaghi-multipurpose-email-builder-access/11650017

[Jeff_Kew1]

To echo some others. Going with a master template that holds all modules is the way to go. While at SAP I reached out to knak looking for a mailchimp like editor based on modules. We eventually decided with having their consulting side: Revenue Pulse, build out an editor 2.0 template with all the modules - from the master template we could create unlimited derivatives that could be applied to different products etc... but still hold on to the parent brand. There were a couple extra modules that team members needed later on, and Revenue Pulse was able to add them in later. However, it's been a few years now so I would imagine they could recommend a very robust master template with every conceivable module.

[SanfordWhiteman]

Guys, remember that Nation rules do not allow promoting your company.

[SanfordWhiteman]

Well, the rules are there so threads don't become flooded with ads... no matter whether someone's product or service is fit-for-purpose.

[Tashmeem_Waqas1]

Hi David,

Sorry you're having a frustrating experience but I have to agree with Grace and everyone else who said its more to do with your Email Template rather than the Marketo Email Editor 2.0. The way your template is designed makes a massive difference when it comes to creating and editing your emails. For Example: We have a client that had the hardest time building emails and had to get my help to update the html in each email to achieve the simplest things (less white space between modules or even text sections within the module, changing background colour of modules, changing image sizes etc) because the agency that created the template did not understand Marketo syntax. We recently had a new template designed for them (we used Email Monks) and its literally cut down the time it takes to build/edit emails by more than half.

Investing in a good custom template design is totally worth it and will save you A LOT of time, effort and frustrations in the long run.

Good luck,

Tash

[Leticia_DoPrado]

Preach David! It's kind of crazy that you have to:

1. Use Marketo's very limited built-in templates or
2. Learn how to code -oh, and even if you do know how to code, you have to know specifically how to code Marketo's "syntax modules" , otherwise, you can't edit anything in the email once it's in Marketo without (drum rolls please) going into the code...again!

If you do find a solution that doesn't require you to hire coder, please share!

[Grace_Brebner3]

I totally understand the frustrations, but I think it's misleading and arguably defeatist to consider these as the only two options - there's more options, and the first two you've presented aren't (in my opinion) inherently awful choices. You can:

1. Use Marketo's basic starter templates (which are designed to be a starting point)
2. Expand your skill set by learning to code for email (a highly attractive skill in this industry) and how to use Marketo's simple and easy to use syntax within your HTML (i.e., include a few additional details to with ids and classes at appropriate sections to enable additional user-friendly functionality).
3. Develop a strong business case to hire a developer with email specific knowledge (which is an awesome resource to have).
4. Partner with other areas of your business who would benefit from developer resource to create a joint business case to hire one - noting that any decent email developer would be able to learn Marketo's syntax quickly, and many people with email development skills are multi-skilled in enormously beneficial areas such as web development, email/web design, UX, etc.
5. Partner with one of the many knowledgeable and affordable third parties who can develop email templates that are specifically designed to suit both your brand and your in-editor requirements.
6. Utilise one of the many third party plug ins mentioned in this thread to scale your email creation in a drag-and-drop style.

I'm sure there's more choices beyond that, too.

Equally, I think the expectation that Marketo should provide fully realised and comprehensive advanced email templates free-of-use is unrealistic and impractical. It doesn't really (in my opinion) make sense for Marketo to devote resources to developing advanced versions of their starter email templates, when:

• Most Marketo customers (particularly users above level 1 maturity) are likely to be using custom templates and wouldn't benefit from updates to the starter templates.
• A larger number of customers would benefit from investment in developing additional platform functionality instead.
• No two businesses needs are going to be the same for an email template - the starter templates are therefore designed to be as best fit for as many people based on the type of users who utilise them, and it would be incredibly difficult to develop advanced templates that would have high adoption for this same reason.
• Further to that, email clients are constantly evolving on what they do and don't accept, display, respond to, etc, so the more complicated an email template is, the more ongoing maintenance it's likely to require to ensure consistent responsivity across clients over time.
• And each database may have a completely different skew of dominant email clients that an email must be responsive across, so Marketo wouldn't have the benefit of being able to disregard or prioritise responsiveness across specific clients based on how that client is represented in your database, like can be done when you develop a custom one.

I'm not arguing that these difficulties you're experiencing aren't real or frustrating, actually the opposite - the fact that I've experienced those same frustrations is how I've learned a lot about the complexities of email development, client testing, and eventually come to develop my own templates and use the full power of Marketo's email editor in a way that's effective for both me and my users.

Sorry for the long rant, but I guess TLDR; this is a complex and nuanced subject with no single, perfect OOB solution for everyone, but there's resources out there to make it easier for a range of different needs.

[Brooke_Bartos1]

I've used Knak and had great reuslts, but I've also used Grazitti Interactive on several projects where I wanted a very robust, coded to a a design, master template for Marketo Editor 2.0. My templates from them contain roughtly 35-40 module options, so they can be used for any different type of layout and format, and I've been very happy with them.

[Karyn_Hill]

Hi Grace,

You make excellent points, most of which I agree with. As the one person at my company that codes, when someone asks me to do something in an email that I hadn't yet thought of, I can create it in the template, save the template, and then create the email and I'm good. But there are six other people creating emails and if they want a module that doesn't yet exist, they have only one person to ask to do it. That then slows them down, pulls me away from another task (Marketo is only a part of my job), and then they have to start their email over again.

What our company needs, and many other companies, it seems, is a drag and drop editor. You can make literally any combination of rows and columns, without knowing code and just by dragging over text boxes or image boxes or buttons or whatever else, and put them in the order and configuration you want.

I happen to very much love Marketo. Our company is now considering moving to another platform and my instinct is to shout "Don't take away my Marketo!" But the fact that, among other things, it doesn't have a drag and drop editor is a part of why they want to switch. The delay in the work of two people when someone wants a module that doesn't yet exist is a big factor in the desire to make a switch. And that doesn't even take into account the landing page editor, which is far more limiting than the email editor.

We're a small non-profit association. I'm all they've got as a coder but I've already got more than enough to do with my other duties. The editor Marketo has is far superior to what we've used in the past and if I were the only one creating emails, we'd be good. But I'm not. The others who do it don't know how to code and wouldn't have time to do it anyway. Their roles were created a long time ago and they didn't include needing to know how to code, and I doubt that need could be added into their roles any time soon. A drag and drop editor would solve this for us—and everyone else who has posted to this forum over the years lamenting the lack of a drag and drop editor.

[Grace_Brebner3]

Hey Karyn,

First: I feel your pain. That's not an easy situation to be stuck in.

This might be blunt - but if you love Marketo and don't want to lose it being blunt might help you keep it, so... In my opinion, to consider moving away from Marketo for its lack of a drag and drop editor shows a fundamental lack of understanding of what Marketo is and how email works.

I don't know what the other issues are that you're having, but switching to another platform over an insufficient email template (which is what the root of your problem seems to be) is basically like deciding to burn down your newly built house because you don't like the colour you just painted the walls. The paint isn't actually a fault in the house, and it's also not that hard or expensive (certainly compared to the cost of building a whole new house) to change.

Marketo has a drag and drop editor - in fact, better than many other platforms, in my opinion, when powered with a good template - your template just doesn't have all the modules you need, or probably the flexibility within either. It's not a fault in Marketo - it's also not your fault, it's the result of the company not prioritising investment in hiring developer resource or working with a third party to develop that template.

I would strongly recommend working with a third party (email monks always come highly recommended in community for their quality + speed + price) who can firstly show you what a good template enables, and then can also help you develop a comprehensive master template that covers a large range of highly flexible modules. Even if you do switch platforms down the line, you'll likely be able to take that template with you and repurpose to fit your new platform, and you'll hopefully know you're making the change because of the foundations and not the paint.

I am more than happy to jump on a call and show you what the custom template I developed for my team enables if it helps you out.

[Karyn_Hill]

Hi Grace,

Thanks for your thoughtful response.

The editor isn't the only reason we're considering switching marketing programs. We've run into a few issues since we started with Marketo, the first being a six-month delay in implementation where we had to continue paying for our previous program and Marketo. That started Marketo off with some ill feeling for management, who hadn't planned for the extra expense. There are several other things, all of which seem worse because of the negative start. The editor is a big one, though. There are enough marketing programs with drag and drop editors that are completely flexible, with no one needing to dream up all possible combinations in order for them to function as drag and drop.

I personally think it's workable and wish I had the time to really dig into Marketo and prove it. I don't, though, and their thought is that we shouldn't have to have someone work that hard to make the program work the way we want it to. This is coming from people accustomed to other programs, which they report to be more flexible than Marketo. And we're switching from MSD to Salesforce (with an interface designed by a third party), and the person handling that integration is pushing hard for us to use Pardot instead. I don't know a thing about Pardot but it has them thinking of options other than Marketo.

I would very much like to take you up on a call. I'm about to go on vacation and would have time to do it. If I can come up with a template that solves their problems with it, that would remove a large part of their desire to change platforms.

[Jay_Jiang]

Personally, I'd stay far, far away from Pardot as possible. Salesforce themselves gave up on Pardot for quite a while and only recently started product development on it again. It has half the functionality of Marketo and costs equally as much as Marketo, if not more.

Having said that, if you've done the proper due diligence (and haven't just been sold to by a sales person) and found that Pardot is a better fit for your business, then by all means go for it.

[Karyn_Hill]

I think at this point, it has just been the person handling our integration that has been pushing Pardot. I'll check into it so I can add a cautionary voice if needed, but my voice counts for little. I really would prefer to stay with Marketo.

[Veronica_Holme4]

I can't agree enough with what Grace has very eloquently said. Marketo is an advanced tool, it does a vast number of things beyond send email, and is used by a great many users in many complex ways. Design is something that is so incredibly specific to an organisation that I doubt more than 5 percent of their users would ever use an overly-complex out of the box template even if they did develop one.

Also +1 to recommendations for Knak. I have put many of my clients onto it.

[Mahurrinah_Sims]

We use a really simple platform called beefree.io​ we're also checking out Stripo, which was mentioned above.