Do we seriously need to know how to code to create a landing page template?

[Leticia_DoPrado]

I've used 4 different marketing automation tools and I've been new to Marketo over the past few months and I don't understand why there isn't a drag and drop editor for landing page templates and email templates. I feel extremely frustrated because although I know some very basic coding, it's not nearly enough to do some basic things like move modules around or create a very simple landing page that just has a text box, a title, a form and a footer.

Also, I don't understand why there are two options to create a landing page template: free-form or guided. Both of them take you to the template code editor.

Am I just not finding how to build these templates in an easier way? Or is this really how Marketo rolls (you need to 1) be a coder or 2) hire a coder or 3) pay a third party?

[Pierce_Ujjain18]

Drag and drop functionality is definitely lacking in the Marketo Guided Landing Page editor, especially if you are coming from Unbounce or another solution like that before.

There are several considerations you have to think through if you host your pages outside of Marketo.

Namely:

1. No more use of Marketo tokens (program tokens or otherwise)

2. Your conversion data will live outside of Marketo

3. Can't use Marketo dynamic content on your landing pages

4. Form pre-fill is gone

5. Progressive profiling is gone

If flexibility and control outweigh these Marketo features then it might still make sense to move your LPs out of Marketo, but they are considerations you should definitely weigh.

[John_Stalnaker]

Hi Pierce Ujjainwalla. I embed Marketo forms in WordPress pages using Sanford Whiteman​'s code, referenced above, and it gives me the ability to fully utilize tokens, form pre-fill, and progressive profiling. I'm not using Marketo dynamic content at this point, so I'm not sure of capabilities there, and - I'll be honest - I do most of my reporting using other methods depending on what I'm after.

[Pierce_Ujjain18]

Program tokens in your form or on your WP landing page?

[John_Stalnaker]

Tokens in the campaign. For instance, if I have a smart campaign set up to send a link to an offer, I've set that up as a token. I'm not sure I've added program tokens to a form. I have not tried referencing tokens in a WordPress landing page, either. I'm curious - what is your most practical use case for those?

[Pierce_Ujjain18]

Tokens in the campaign are fine, I am referring to program tokens on the page itself.

So, for example if you are running a multi-city roadshow, you could have a token for {{my.Roadshow City}} which could be changed at the program level and flow to all emails and landing pages that reference that. Pages hosted outside of Marketo cannot use those.

I looked at the blog post you referenced, and that is cool. You can also pre-fill using Marketo's native API: http://developers.marketo.com/blog/external-page-prefill/

But, both of those approaches require some coding which limits many people on this community.

[SanfordWhiteman]

So, for example if you are running a multi-city roadshow, you could have a token for {{my.Roadshow City}} which could be changed at the program level and flow to all emails and landing pages that reference that. Pages hosted outside of Marketo cannot use those.

Actually, the cross-domain Pre-Fill solution John highlights can inject Program-level {{my.tokens}} into a non-Marketo LP, although it's a niche case and not really what it's made for.

I looked at the blog post you referenced, and that is cool. You can also pre-fill using Marketo's native API

Please never attempt to use the REST API for this. It's a living, (barely) breathing example of a DoS vulnerability and should never be used in a professional environment.

But, both of those approaches require some coding which limits many people on this community.

Complete, working code is in my blog post. It takes no new coding at all and is a drop-in solution for people that are merely experienced Marketo (UI) users.

[Pierce_Ujjain18]

What am I missing here? Using the API, your service could be brought down by exceeding your daily limits as well, but this is avoidable with proper monitoring and paying for more API requests if needed.

I see this as a scaling concern, not a DoS vulnerability.

[Anonymous]

Ideally landing pages should be part of a website and embed Marketo forms or use Marketo API - this will help in keeping the user on the website and also be part of one domain.

This will simplify landing page creation as whoever is managing the website will developer or author the landing page and not worry about designing/coding separately.

Using unbounce or instapages etc create a new domain and wont help in increasing website traffic.

[Ryan_ZAKSZESKI]

I recently evaluated Instapage, Unbounce, and LeadPages because I too because frustrated with Marketo out-of-the-box functionality.  All 3 solutions are rather inexpensive for the value they provide.  In the end we went with Instapage and after about a month and a handful of programs, it is working perfectly!  I highly recommend!

[Leticia_DoPrado]

Thanks for the recs Ryan! I've never heard of Instapage before, I'll check them out!

[Karyn_Hill]

I code our Marketo templates (I had to figure it out for myself but it was doable). I then create an email (or landing page) using that template, set things up as for our end users in the layout they'll most often use them (this doesn't take much because I create the template almost exactly how they'll be using it), and place that email (or landing page) in a folder I created in Marketing Activities that holds all of our "templates." The end users simply clone the email or page that I created for them and can change it to suit what they need (add a photo banner, pull in a module to display a speaker along with some text, etc.). It's extremely flexible and our end users don't have to think much about it.

You can create your own "templates" this way by finding the most flexible existing template that contains what you believe you'll need, create an email (or landing page) from it, and then save that email to a folder people can clone it from. You just set treat that email (or landing page) like it's your template—clone it, change what you want, and you're set.

[Leticia_DoPrado]

Thanks Karyn, this sounds like a good idea. I'll definitely try it!

[SanfordWhiteman]

As there are a couple of mentions of Unbounce here I want to mention that you should not use Unbounce's so-called Marketo integration, which is in fact broken relative to what an experienced Marketo user expects.

Rather, you should use the Marketo forms endpoint (not a Marketo form, simply the forms endpoint) to accept Unbounce form posts, as noted in my blog post.

[Michael_Tucker1]

I actually like that suggestion a lot, Sanford Whiteman​. What is the URL of the blog post that you're referring to?

[Arvin_Poole]

Thanks for pointing this out. We are not using forms at all with Unbounce but good to know for future.

[Michael_Tucker1]

Hi Leticia DoPrado​,

I can appreciate the frustration here... I've heard this from more than one group as they were coming on board with Marketo. It's definitely a different paradigm than the other MAPs and there are advantages and disadvantages to it. I like John Stalnaker​ and Adam Pereyra​'s responses here in particular. There are a few different approaches to creative assets in Marketo, both with and without a developer. Hopefully this is a concise starting point:

1. Use third party development tools - Unbounce for landing pages and Knak.io for email assets are two that are common thought of best of breed. Using your own CMS like WordPress is also a common and cost effective option that I see used often.
2. Repurpose Marketo stock templates - Email templates are built into the interface or you can download samples from docs.Marketo.com. You might need some developer work, depending on the level of changes you need from these templates
3. Hire a Developer - It's good to have a contractor on hand anyways to help with scripting issues and ad hoc digital campaigns. All of my clients have either had an in-house designer or a creative agency on hand. Marketo's Email Syntax article that John referenced is pretty easy to implement for someone with HTML/CSS experience. If you're looking for people skilled in Marketo syntax, you might try contacting Email Monks.
4. Design it yourself - Admittedly it takes some trial and error if you're not used to this, but there are a selection of tools like Adobe Dreamweaver (yes, the same folks who are buying Marketo) that help to streamline this work. Lynda.com has some great instructional videos to help you quickly gear up if you want to take this route and that's usually free with a library card these days.

I really hope that helps! If you want to talk it through directly, feel free to PM me or give me a call and I can point you in the right direction: 704-469-5137.

All the best,

Michael Tucker

MUG Leader

Manufacturing Virtual User Group​

[Leticia_DoPrado]

Thanks so much Michael! You're answer is very helpful and I'm happy to hear I'm not alone in my frustration!!

[John_Stalnaker]

Hi Leticia,

To answer your question directly: Yes. No doubt about it.

I was very frustrated at how much effort was required to set up campaigns in Marketo compared to other platforms I've used - and I'm very technical for a marketer. However, I was able to invest time to figure out ways to streamline program and content creation so that we could scale our marketing processes. It's worth the time and effort to either learn how to do it yourself or find a reliable party to help you.

Here is the path I've taken to get there. Maybe it can help point you in a good direction:

1. Landing pages: I followed Sanford Whiteman​'s instructions on how to embed Marketo forms into landing pages created in our CMS: Form Pre-Fill. External sites. No limits. You're welcome. They pre-fill, progressively profile, and play well within Marketo programs. Sanford is the truth.

2. Email templates: I learned how to create custom modules in Marketo's email templates. Email Template Syntax - Marketo Docs - Product Documentation. It was a lot of trial and error, but in the end I have a couple template emails that allow us to combine modules that handle almost all of our layout needs. I only occasionally need to revisit the templates to account for new designs. This allows me to stick with Marketo as my email editing tool which is essential to our workflow. Otherwise I wouldn't use Marketo.

3. Program creation: I figured out how to set up programs and use tokens to make cloning existing programs a snap. Grégoire Michel​ (another good person to follow, as is Josh Hill) points out that Marketo does a great job of preserving the relationship between assets in a program (smart campaigns, emails, forms, reports), which is true. Also learning how to leverage program tokens makes cloning very flexible - I use some tokens like a checklist to fill in for things like URL of the downloadable offer, campaign tracking values, etc. I don't think this makes Marketo more powerful, though. It just makes it work about as well as modern platforms when creating new programs.

So it took some doing, but now I have a solution that is scalable. In then end, it's totally worth the effort. Marketo is a powerful tool, but you are right - you need to code or have coders to make it really work well. The trick, I've found, is to invest up front in figuring out how to set up your programs, templates, and CMS integration for scalability.

Good luck!

[Leticia_DoPrado]

Thank you John! I do find the programs extremely helpful in streamlining a lot of our initiatives --but sometimes when we want to create something that has a bit of a different look and feel, it takes a ridiculous amount of time and effort to get it done --and I am fairly technical.

Also, I don't think we should need to hire professional services given the amount of money we pay for the tool. That's why I loved Hubspot, they gave you absolutely all the training you needed to get through it on your own and get your money's worth without having to pay EXTRA and have to contract with another party. I have previously implemented both Hubspot and Act-On and I was able to hit the ground running by myself with both of those platforms without a third party help. I think that high-end platforms need to be focused on everything --not just the automation, it'd be nice if Marketo could solve some of these simple issues before focusing so much on AI and other stuff. Going down to the basics is just as important as flying into "what's next".

[Grégoire_Miche2]

Hi John,

The path you went through should normally paved by some consultant helping you figuring out how to well use Marketo. This out to be their job to do the coding as well. And it's also recommended that one gets real training.

High-end Marketing Automation solutions (Eloqua, Marketo) should not be sold without some minimum professional services delivered by people who are trained for this. Period.

-Greg