do leads get stuck in an infinite loop in engagement programs?

[Jamie-Carey]

Has anyone had there leads get stuck in an infinite loop as described in Docs?

Add a Program to an Engagement Program Stream - Marketo Docs - Product Docs

I'm not seeing this in my smart lists to troubleshoot and I'm not seeing it in testing.

Can anyone confirm if this is true from their recent experience? I'm thinking maybe it was true at one point in time but maybe it isn't anymore.

[Veronica_Holme4]

There is an easy way to explain this - think of the "cast" as an action that is taken upon that lead, and the only two actions that can be undertaken are send an email, or run a smart campaign.

If you are running a smart campaign, if they don't qualify to receive anything based on the smart list in the program they receive nothing for the current cast and move on to the next cast. You can never have someone disqualify from a smart list in the current cast and receive anything in that same cast, the act of running them against the smart list in the smart campaign is essentially the cast.

I have tested this extensively, what Dan is saying above 100% works. So the change to the docs above is still not correct. I've forwarded some feedback to assist the team to change the docs.

[Grégoire_Miche2]

Hi Veronica,

Worded that way make it clear. Thx

-Greg

[Dan_Stevens_]

It appears that Marketo fixed this - sort of - and has recently modified the documentation.  The page where this paragraph was included has now been changed to this:

Adding a Program to an Engagement Program Stream - Marketo Docs - Product Docs

and the paragraph now reads:

What happens to people who don't meet the smart list criteria?

If the engagement program calls a smart campaign within a program, people who do not meet the smart list criteria will not qualify for the smart campaign. They will move on to the next piece of content in the stream for the current cast.

So I decided to test this.  The good news is leads no longer remain in an infinite loop when they don't qualify for a program.  But, contrary to the new documentation, they will NOT move on to the next piece of content in the stream for the current cast.  They will have to wait for the next cast.  So they will receive nothing during the current cast for which they don't qualify.

My test criteria was as follows:

• Two EP members (Lead1 and Lead2)
• Two programs within EP
  • The first program included a filter in the smart list of the smart campaign that excluded Lead1 based on "email address contains"
• During the first cast, only Lead2 received Email #1 (Lead1 received nothing)
• During the second cast, both Lead1 and Lead2 received Email #2

[Josh_Hill13]

Thanks for confirming. Marketo claims they fixed that even before that docs update, but had never updated the docs until more recently.

[Grégoire_Miche2]

Hi Jamie,

Can you provide screenshots of the smart campaign smart list (the smart campaign that sits in the nested program and sends the email)?

If it is properly configured, there is no reason why you should have a problem

-Greg

[Jamie-Carey]

It's "member of engagement program" and another filter for "not visited webpage" in the smart list for the program nested in the stream. My question though is whether the documentation is correct in saying any other filters besides the member of engagement program will cause leads to be stuck in an infinite loop.

[Jamie-Carey]

Sorry, not that any other filters would cause them to be stuck in an infinite loop but if they didn't meet the qualifications of all the filters, then they would be stuck in an infinite loop.

[Grégoire_Miche2]

Hi Jamie,

I would trust the doc on this. Rather use this additional filter in choices in the smart campaign that sends the email.

-Greg

[Jamie-Carey]

I'm asking the question because I don't think the docs are correct. And I haven't been able to prove they are correct in my testing or in my engagement program.

[Jessica_Kao3]

I just did some testing on this and wrote about the results.  If you want to exclude someone as long as they are part of the program that smart campaign that is nested in the nurture it will work.  They will get stuck in the infinite loop if they are not part of the member of that program.  If you turn the nurture off and back on they leave purgatory. 

https://nation.marketo.com/community/champion/blog/2016/12/11/how-to-set-up-nurtures-so-folks-dont-g...​

[Josh_Hill13]

that's good to know.

[Jamie-Carey]

Well, they seemed really sure and I was asking because that wasn't my experience but the docs said it was and I didn't want to be building my programs incorrectly.

[Jamie-Carey]

Support got back to me last week and they said that the documentation is incorrect and leads will not get stuck in an infinite loop. They are looking to get the docs changed.

[Josh_Hill13]

hmm...how sure are they about this?

[Grégoire_Miche2]

Hi Jamie,

Thx a lot for coming back to us on this.

-Greg

[Jamie-Carey]

Absolutely! That's what community is for!

[Josh_Hill13]

Yes, this is a documented "feature" which I've discussed before. It ONLY applies if you use Programs in your streams.

You MUST allow ALL leads in the cast to qualify for the smart list, otherwise the non qualifiers go into Engagement Purgatory, never to receive a Cast again.