15 Replies Latest reply on Jan 24, 2018 9:46 PM by Sanford Whiteman

    Registering Multiple Leads for Same Event

    Nick Nappo

      The manager of one of our branches is doing an event, and has registered a lead on the event's landing page.  That lead shows up on the registration list.  Then he tries to register multiple leads from the same company as the first.  Well, all these subsequent leads he tries to register do not show in the list.  Meanwhile, he's closed out the browser before registering each subsequent lead, but to no avail.

       

      What seems to be the problem here?  Is it the browser's cache?  Do I need to turn some setting?  It's frustrating because apparently multiple reps at this branch have registered their clients for the event, so there are about 50 leads that should be on the registration list but are not.

        • Re: Registering Multiple Leads for Same Event
          Grace Brebner

          Hey Nick,

           

          Is the page being cookied? If so, what's likely happening here is that each new submission is overwriting the original submission made by the manager (the cookie basically thinks it's one person entering the form and that the new data is a correction to the existing linked record).

           

          If you know that internal staff will be submitting a form with customer data, it's best to remove tracking. Note that there's other side effects to your staff submitting customer data on a cookied form - including that their activity will be mapped to that contact record (so if that manager is visiting your website, those visits will now appear on that contact record's activity log, even though it isn't actually them).

           

          Pro-Tip: Disable Cookies on a Landing Page

            • Re: Registering Multiple Leads for Same Event
              Sanford Whiteman
              Is the page being cookied? If so, what's likely happening here is that each new submission is overwriting the original submission made by the manager (the cookie basically thinks it's one person entering the form and that the new data is a correction to the existing linked record).

              That's not how (Marketo) forms work, though. The record is not updated: quite the contrary, a new lead is created.

               

              Also, to properly create a Referral Form (as that's what this is) you can't just remove tracking on the one LP. You have to remove (or, more properly, suspend) any existing cookies whenever that page loads, because otherwise the cookie just gets attached to the form as usual. Loading Munchkin is not a requirement to have a cookie present on the page. The code you linked to takes advantage of undocumented forms behavior to suspend the cookie from the form submission without deleting it entirely.

               

              Anyway, the reason you need to implement the Referral Form pattern properly isn't because the original submission is overwritten.  It's because of the second area you mention, the unwanted mapping of Munchkin session activity to newly created records.

            • Re: Registering Multiple Leads for Same Event
              Sanford Whiteman

              Nick, please provide the URL of your LP w/the form.

              • Re: Registering Multiple Leads for Same Event
                Sanford Whiteman

                Also, while we await the URL, couple other points:

                 

                Meanwhile, he's closed out the browser before registering each subsequent lead, but to no avail.

                Closing the browser has no effect on Marketo's Munchkin cookie.  The cookie times out after a period (2 years by default) of inactivity, but lasts across browser sessions (it wouldn't be of much use if did not persist across sessions).

                 

                Then he tries to register multiple leads from the same company as the first.

                The Company field isn't participating in the deduping process unless you've specially configured this in your instance -- and even if it were part of the dedupe key, it would make submissions more unique, not less.

                 

                Is it the browser's cache?

                The browser cache is not involved, unless you consider cookies to be broadly part of the "cache."

                • Re: Registering Multiple Leads for Same Event
                  Veronica Holmes

                  Quick question... is he by any chance using the same email address for each person he's registering?

                    • Re: Registering Multiple Leads for Same Event
                      Sanford Whiteman

                      That would be kind of strange, but I wondered too! Like only varying the full name and using the rep's own email address or something.  But why you would expect that to be the right way to sign people up to a MA platform is beyond me...

                        • Re: Registering Multiple Leads for Same Event
                          Dan Stevens

                          Nothing surprises me anymore. We recently had an account exec enter hundreds of his contacts in CRM. He didn’t know their email addresses - so he just entered his work email address for every contact!  Clearly, we need stricter governance in CRM!

                          • Re: Registering Multiple Leads for Same Event
                            Grace Brebner

                            Ah I think this might be where my original thinking came from - last time I saw this same result with a client they were doing exactly this. D'oh!

                              • Re: Registering Multiple Leads for Same Event
                                Veronica Holmes

                                Grace - Yes, your response was what caused me to ask the question. The solution you're proposing should work though. Honestly for years all of us have been giving the advice that if you want to use the same form for entering multiple people (like on an ipad at a trade show or something) you tell people to take munchkin off the page. But this behavious I've only ever seen with using the same email. I've been told many time by Marketo product managers though that the cookie is checked first, THEN the email address, but my experience with using that theory in practice has been inconsistent at best.

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                                  • Re: Registering Multiple Leads for Same Event
                                    Sanford Whiteman

                                    I've been told many time by Marketo product managers though that the cookie is checked first, THEN the email address

                                    That's disappointing, since in reality it's consistently the opposite of that!

                                     

                                    The expected behavior is that a new lead is created. If someone said otherwise, they were probably confused about whether you were starting from an anonymous session or an already-associated session.  (Also, people don't often know how legacy logic really works, bus factor and all.)

                                     

                                    Now, the cookie could be said to be "checked first" in the sense that the server must know if an association already exists -- but that doesn't mean that a series of posts get merged into the same lead, it dictates whether the Activity Logs are merged or not.

                            • Re: Registering Multiple Leads for Same Event
                              Michael White

                              I've seen this behavior intermittently too while testing some forms -- when there is an existing Munchkin cookie connected to a known lead present, submitting the form with a different email address appears to have no effect.  No form fill activity is logged in the original person's Activity Log, nor is one logged to the second's (or indeed, no Lead is Created activity occurs if the new email address does not correspond to an existing record).

                               

                              Marketo's advice was to continue to use private sessions or clear cookies before making additional submissions, which is fine for testing purposes but obviously doesn't scale very well to the different times your end-users may experience this.

                                • Re: Registering Multiple Leads for Same Event
                                  Sanford Whiteman

                                  Here, I'd sooner believe the form didn't submit at all, i.e. the form data never went on the wire, or that invalid values made their way into the form data.

                                   

                                  Unless an instance's activity db is corrupted (which indeed can happen!) haven't seen a form post with valid data accepted at the HTTP level, yet no Filled Out Form anywhere in the global Activity Log. (Note also that certain invalid values will cause an otherwise successful post to be discarded before it gets logged, like invalid datetimes.)

                                • Re: Registering Multiple Leads for Same Event
                                  Sanford Whiteman

                                  Nick are you still listening? Lots of good input on your case, but we haven't heard back from you.