24 Replies Latest reply on Jul 26, 2016 2:59 PM by Dan Stevens

    Adding Munchkin to GTM

    Mary Licanin

      At the end of our Marketo landing pages, we have a parameterized Munchkin init function:

       

       

      We use Google Tag Manager across our sites (including our Marketo landing pages), and we would like to include the Munchkin code snippet in it, ie:

       

       

      Would that override/break the parameterized Munchkin code that is already being included on our pages?

       

      Thanks in advance!

      Mary

        • Re: Adding Munchkin to GTM
          Grégoire Michel

          Hi Mary,

           

          You should not have the munchkin fired twice. You may want to make sure that the version in GTM is the parameterized one and remove the one from the pages.

           

          -Greg

          • Re: Adding Munchkin to GTM
            Kenny Elkington

            It's highly recommended that you do not use GTM for munchkin on your Marketo LPs.  You will lose the ability to filter web page visits on your landing pages names if you do so.

              • Re: Adding Munchkin to GTM
                Mary Licanin

                Thanks Kenny, we have decided to use GTM to serve Munchkin everywhere except our Marketo landing pages - it seemed to be the most intuitive solution.

                  • Re: Adding Munchkin to GTM
                    Sanford Whiteman

                    I don't recommend using GTM for Munchkin in either case if you want the greatest tracking accuracy.  You may be dealing with the difference between 99.9% accuracy and 99.99% -- but with high-traffic sites that difference is significant.

                     

                    Outside of GTM, it is sometimes necessary to remove Munchkin from Marketo LPs and re-add it manually in order for tracking to work as expected. To do this safely (without losing friendly names as Kenny mentions) requires a little hackwork that maybe I should blog about sometime.

                      • Re: Adding Munchkin to GTM
                        Mary Licanin

                        I probably understand why you say you don't recommend it, but the appeal of managing it all under one roof has a strong appeal - is it worth possibly losing the 0.09% accuracy? Maybe yes, maybe no - guess it depends who you ask. A post on that hackish (ie., poetic!) solution would be an interesting read. Although, I have resolved to the fact that munchkin gets added to the Landing Pages by unicorn magic and if there's one thing life has taught me, it's not to mess with the unicorns.

                          • Re: Adding Munchkin to GTM
                            Sanford Whiteman

                            If you get 10000 unique visitors a day, you could be losing source information for 9 of them; if you get 100,000 unique page views per day, you could be missing 90 of them from your Marketo logs, triggers, etc.  (The actual numbers can be significantly higher depending on the geographic distribution of your leads.)

                             

                            Now, the optimist decides those you can't see would be the ones you wouldn't want to see (by pure coincidence, of course, as there's no relationship!). The pessimist says there's no way to know this.

                              • Re: Adding Munchkin to GTM
                                Grégoire Michel

                                Hi Sanford Whiteman and Kenny Elkington,

                                 

                                I observe that more and more companies will want to use GTM to handle the munchkin in order to comply with the cookie opt-in directives: GTM handles it and either activate or deactivate all cookies, including Marketo's, when the visitor chooses to opt-out.

                                 

                                -Greg

                                  • Re: Adding Munchkin to GTM
                                    Sanford Whiteman

                                    I know they are!  They're not thinking about the impact, though, piling on the ill-advised notion of "indirection everywhere." Then they wonder why they lose data! Of course if you use my Munchkin Enhanced adapter you can deal with a lot of that...

                                      • Re: Adding Munchkin to GTM
                                        Grégoire Michel

                                        I should have known you also had this one covered

                                         

                                        You need to tell us more on this now. It's either too much or too little...

                                         

                                        -Greg

                                          • Re: Adding Munchkin to GTM
                                            Sanford Whiteman

                                            If only someone else cared besides you, Greg!

                                              • Re: Adding Munchkin to GTM
                                                Liliana Cheng

                                                Hey Sanford Whiteman, I'm interested in hearing more about GTM disadvantages. We don't use Marketo LPs at all, only wordpress and GTM, but we are considering hardcoding the munchkin and removing GTM. Would like to understand the benefits and disadvantages before we make the move though.

                                                  • Re: Adding Munchkin to GTM
                                                    Sanford Whiteman

                                                    There's no accuracy advantage to running Munchkin via GTM, only disadvantages.  There are (to some people) manageability advantages, but I care about accuracy first.

                                                     

                                                    What people fail to reason through when adding analytics scripts (I detest the term "tags") is that if analytics is mission-critical -- and every CMO says it is -- pageviews, especially the first pageview on a device, must be logged before the lead navigates away from the page.  Yet the more preconditions and dependencies you add before Munchkin can finally load its tracking pixel, the less seriously you're taking analytics.

                                                     

                                                    So these are clearly conflicting priorities.  If you want processes to complete before the person leaves the page, you want them closer to the synchronous, must-complete foreground.  If you don't want scripts to ever interfere with page rendering, nor vice versa, then you want them in the asychronous, best-effort background. You can't have it both ways.

                                                     

                                                    There's rarely a practical problem on high-speed, low-latency connections, though.  The devil is in low-speed, high-latency connections.  The 3G connection, the train in a tunnel, the spotty shared wifi, long geographic distances. Built-in network limitations of mobile devices make it even worse.  If you serve 30 asynchronous scripts to a smart phone on a low-quality connection, don't expect all the tags to their jobs.

                                                     

                                                    GA has some techniques that make background analytics more reliable (but then GA's servers are more reliable in general).  My Munchkin Enhanced library adds some of those extensions to Munchkin, but it can't cover all the bases. I always recommend that my clients use the simple embed code (which removes only one async layer -- there are still two required async calls), or, even better, load the tracking pixel directly (this requires server-side coordination).

                                                     

                                                    In all, we may be talking about the difference between 99.99% and 99.999% of requests not completing.  However, if you're generating 100K requests per day, that's 900 misses, and the failures are going to be weighted toward first-time visitors with unprimed caches -- people you definitely want to see.

                                                     

                                                    Look, it's not the end of the world, but I think once you're aware of the risks, you want to mitigate them.

                                                    3 of 3 people found this helpful
                                  • Re: Adding Munchkin to GTM
                                    Dan Stevens

                                    Hi Kenny Elkington - we use GTM on our Marketo LPs and are able to filter/trigger on the Marketo LP name (vs. the URL) in our smart lists.  For example:

                                     

                                     

                                    Are you referring to something different?